Posts by Had Enough

63

"Hey there all you lurkey ones..."

by Simon in

jw
friends

hmmn, doesn't quite work does it?

ok...we'll stick with 'thirsty' then .

why not register and make a post or two...ask a question...make a statement...whatever !.

Had Enough

Hi Simon
I'm glad you offered this invitation. I've often wondered with so many registered ones and only a few posting, when others will feel comfortable to jump in. I see one has already...hopefully more will feel the warm welcome to join in too.

Hello Target

Welcome to our board family. I'm glad you took the plunge and joined us. If you've been lurking for awhile, I'm sure you've seen we have quite a diverse group, but the beauty of this board is that we are free to share our views but are still reminded when we step overstep the boundaries of decency and civility.

We are all in different stages of our experience with the JWs as you've probably noticed and so the healing process and levels are varied but at least we have an outlet here and I for one have benefited so much from the knowledge many have been sharing with us from their research, from their experience and from their ongoing contacts with those still inside.

I'm sure you will enjoy much more from participating as it gives such a rush of relief to be able to express yourself without fear of being muzzled or kicked out.

And the friendships formed here are strong because of the common bond we all have in being victims of being duped into giving our lives to a fairytale. I have been posting here for almost 6 months and feel very close to some really special people here and even met some of them personally...so there really is life outside the org! contrary to popular JW belief.

So...enjoy your stay with us

48

Something DIED in me on Tuesday

by Amazing in

jw
friends

i appreciate the words of another poster who commented that he felt it unwise to post in anger.

i have tried to hold calm and keep my anger in check, but that started to change with my nato posting yesterday.. i am set back over 30 years: i was raised to respect all races, and not to be prejudiced.

i was also raised a proud american, and that it was important not to tolerate bullies.

Had Enough

Dana
I too feel the numbness at not being able to put my feelings into words. I have the feelings of shock, disbelief, anger, such sadness...they're raging inside and causing physical pain. I share your concern for anger being lashed out against innocent people who share a country of origin but don't share the beliefs and ideals of the terrorists. It frightens me where this all could lead.

Amazing As I expressed my feelings to Dana above, I feel these, not as a member of the United States of America who has been attacked in such a brutal way, but as a member of the human race.

I see the faces of absolute dispair in the surviving family members who anguish over the loss of a son, a daughter, a wife, a husband, a mother, a father and the unspeakable ways they died....and can't find any comfort for the pain that causes me as a fellow human.

And the nagging questions this causes just adds to the despair, as in...how do we make this kind of thing stop, never to happen again? The obvious answer as so many have already stated, is just so horrendous to think about as its going to involve more horrible loss of lives of women and children who aren't even carrying a gun.

I too hate what feelings this is all causing in me. I've always despised war and thought it such a futile waste...not because of my JW upbringing, but because I always was one to talk things out not slug them out and couldn't stand the thought of physically hurting someone else. I now have conflicting pictures in my head of how I would feel holding a gun and looking at the face of someone I was supposed to shoot...and don't know how I could possible pull the trigger.

Then I get pictures of the horribly agonizing deaths that person has caused, or of that person threatening by family, my child, and a rage comes out in me that I don't know how to deal with. But I still want to believe there is a better way to deal with this than nuking a nation. That solution doesn't take away my feelings of anger and despair...it adds to it.

I do know of the turmoil of which you speak. I just wish I had an answer to ease your pain...I don't. I just want you to know I understand it.

181

TURN ON CNN: PLANE HIT WORLD TRADE CTR BLDG!!!

by MadApostate in

....

Had Enough

News just reported that even though Y.Arafat condemned the terrorist attack, Palestinians are cheering in the streets and handing out candy, praising god and rejoicing over the news happening in USA.

What kind of hatred can drive people to such lengths...I just can't understand any of this? I'm just sick at thoughts of where this kind of thing can, but hopefully not, lead.

181

TURN ON CNN: PLANE HIT WORLD TRADE CTR BLDG!!!

by MadApostate in

....

Had Enough

My God I can't believe this is happening.

Now FAA has reported "several" planes in flight are unaccounted for. I hope that is a mistake.

26

NEW LAW IN CANADA FOR CLERGY VISITS

by biblexaminer in

jw
friends

elders, and other clergy, can no longer go to the patient lists in hospital and scan for names.

the list is now confidential...!.

article in the newspaper of september 7, 2001. unless you stipulate, upon admission, that you desire a visit, the elders will not even know.. this change, i am sure, is based on the practice of jw blood gestapo frequenting the hospitals and scanning the patient lists under the guise of clergy priviledge, looking for jws sneaking into hospital and getting blood based treatment.. the actions of the elders was deemed against the law of patient confidentiality, and so their privelidge was cut.. elders stay out is now the new law.

Had Enough

Hello all:

I'm sorry you feel this subject isn't getting the attention it deserves...Please be patient and non-judgemental of us all. Many of us can only "pop in and out" for a few minutes at a time and miss many good threads.

AND..please people...don't categorize everyone who doesn't respond to this and other important threads as whiners. Many read the thread and don't respond for their own various reasons....that doesn't mean they aren't reading it and benefitting from it.

As for myself..I'm grateful someone responded and brought it back up to the top for me to notice it tonight. It, and one other thread, have made me start thinking seriously about talking to my da'd son about what my wishes are in a medical emergency. Since the rest of my family are JWs, they naturally would think it was their duty to step in, call the elders, and insist that I "would not want a blood transfusion", even though I haven't been attending regularly for a few years now.

Thank you...I have been following the many threads lately on the WTS deception in the blood issue...and it has made me very conscious of how manipulative the WTS can be through its well-trained HLC, no matter how dedicated and sincere, it (the HLC) is.

15

Ray Franz

by Jeremy Bravo in

jw
friends

i was talking to jw's that i know about a book that i had read by ray franz.

they told me that he was disfellowshipped because he was trying to the control the religion and bend it to his will.. i have read crisis of conscience and the first half of in search of christian freedom, and can tell from my heart that this is not the case.

i see from his examples that he was truly trying to use scripture as his guide.. i am curious of other rumors that are/were circulating through the congregations about him, and on what "basis" they have been spread.

Had Enough

We totally understand Jeremy.

We're all in different stages of leaving and some of us have to guard our identity for sake of remaining family....some have other situations to contend with....we all respect that in each other....we're quite a diverse group....yet we all get along...common bond you know...

Hopefully you'll be able to join us sometime....we intend to keep up with the friendships we've developed so far. We help and support each other....and just generally have a bunch of laughs....just keep in touch with us through this board or through Peter.

Hope things work out for you.

15

Ray Franz

by Jeremy Bravo in

jw
friends

i was talking to jw's that i know about a book that i had read by ray franz.

they told me that he was disfellowshipped because he was trying to the control the religion and bend it to his will.. i have read crisis of conscience and the first half of in search of christian freedom, and can tell from my heart that this is not the case.

i see from his examples that he was truly trying to use scripture as his guide.. i am curious of other rumors that are/were circulating through the congregations about him, and on what "basis" they have been spread.

Had Enough

Hi Jeremy:

I'm glad you brought this up.

Venice gave a very good description of what happened to Ray. There are various rumours that circulated about him and what he did or was and is doing now. One I heard was that he was the one that started and pushed the 1975 fiasco. And that is from the general rank and file type JW...but the sad thing is..they have heard these rumours and believe them to be absolute truth without even searching out further to find the "real" truth.

I've never met the man, but his whole personality of humility and concern for other JWs still "trapped", comes through loud and clear in his books. If he was a bitter old man trying to stir up trouble and dissent against the WTS, it would be obvious in his books...but it isn't anywhere to be found in his books or in his personality with those who have met him and talked to him.

PS: Sorry I missed meeting you at the BRCI....I was there Saturday and heard later you were there too.... Why don't you try to make it to Toronto this weekend to meet up with a few of us who were at the BRCI and the others too? We'd like to meet you....no meetings or talks this time..just a lot of fun and conversation.

51

JC FILE NOTES - What do they contain?

by Amazing in

jw
friends

jc file notes - what do they contain?

jones.. 15. brother smith would tell bro.

smith noted too that bro.

Had Enough

Hello ZAQEN:

Welcome to the board. I appreciate so much hearing from ones who were elders who can share insight with us such as you have. To hear you condemn yourself, as others have here, for following organizational rules and/or attitudes, means so much to us who suffered under them.

There are many of us here, who like the woman you described, cried tears of repentance only to be chastized as "not really repentant", and as "not sorry for what you did, but just sorry you got caught". That always made me fume inside, since I was the one who confessed and would never have got "caught" if I hadn't confessed.

Thank you for adding your experience and we look forward to more.

51

JC FILE NOTES - What do they contain?

by Amazing in

jw
friends

jc file notes - what do they contain?

jones.. 15. brother smith would tell bro.

smith noted too that bro.

Had Enough

Thank you Amazing:

This is very interesting news to me. I always thought your file stayed "alive" forever so to speak and went with you wherever you go.

That's good to hear about the 5 year limit to hold onto a JC file and then destruction to follow.

As for checking with my "current" congregation as to my status, I am in "good standing?" so to speak, just not attending

Its amazing how much added rules and regulations goes on that doesn't have scriptural backing or direction and especially that the lowly r&f doesn't know anything about.

Always glad to learn of these facts, Amazing.

51

JC FILE NOTES - What do they contain?

by Amazing in

jw
friends

jc file notes - what do they contain?

jones.. 15. brother smith would tell bro.

smith noted too that bro.

Had Enough

Hello Amazing:

I just lost my first reply I composed to you...I'll try to recreate the gist of it.

This is a subject that deeply upsets me...I sometimes can't find the words to describe it. Even so, thanks for giving those who never have gone through this, who may still be "locked-in" to the WTS, a very accurate, vivid picture of the reality of a Judicial Committee and the unscriptural, un-loving, unshepherd-like-type elder that have dominated too many a JC.

I endured those painfully demeaning and humiliating interrogations and even though I don't like to remember the experience, I want to never forget it. Sounds absurd? I want to keep on remembering it so that I never, ever, allow myself to be controlled by a man-made organization, or any human for that matter, again!

CPiolo said: ". As an outsider it's eye-opening and amazing that people voluntarily subject themselves to such abuse."

Yes I can understand how an 'outsider' can find it difficult to understand how one can allow someone to control them in this way...to answer question after question for explicit details that really have no bearing on the "sin". The "sin" itself is what needs forgiving ... not the details.
But when you are conditioned to believe, heart and soul, that the only way to have God's forgiveness and blessings again(?) is to submit to everything and anything the elders {God's "helpers"} may say and do, then you make yourself endure it.

It really helps to know of how many others have enduring the JC inquisitions themselves and "survived" to get out too. It is therapeutic and strengthens the resolve to never allow anyone to hold me under their thumb of authority again.

I wonder though:
When I moved to another congregation, would my JC file get sent to it those elders?

Would elders open and read the JC file of someone newly moved in?

And you said:"I destroyed JC files older than five years per Society instruction".
Is this practice actually followed through on regularly in congregations in your experiences? Or would I have to ask the elders to do so?

It is encouraging to hear the appreciation in the words of so many here who thank you, and ones like Maximus, JEMIMAH and many others who are using their knowledge to keep chipping away at the WTS. (no "goupie" here-nudge nudge, wink wink, and grinning- just expressing my gratitude and respect)